Stating and NOT over simplyfing the obvious......

Writing from experience, on here, can I address ALL sellers to the following points.

1. Make 100% sure that what you are offering for sale is EXACTLY the same as the listing specifics your item for sale comes under.
If the listing is STEREO make sure your item is STEREO and vice versa for mono too.
If the listing is a specific release, issue, label, promo, company sleeve, picture sleeve, 5", 7" 10" 12", small hole dinked 3pin optional centre, small hole dinked 4 pin centre, un-cut small hole or RCA-USA industry standard 1 1/2" die-cut large hole for 7" 45's., has a poster, has a flyer, has a sticker, is coloured vinyl, single-sided, etched, autographed, double tracked, styrene, pvc, paper label, I.E.P. (Integral Etched and Painted), cedit notes, manufacturer, boot, grading, even the same mix and or recording, etc etc etc then please, please make sure your copy/item is EXACTLY THE SAME in ALL it's details.

If it is not in EVERY sense, then please either list it under a listing for the different version you have for sale, OR state what specifics that your copy/item does OR does NOT have as is OR is NOT is as listed.

This way it keeps Discogs 99.99% trusted, professional, and THE globe leader. There is NOTHING worse than a buyer not getting what he thought he was paying for and thus wasting and costing postage, time and effort, let alone disappointment.

2. I would advise ANY member buying an item needs to double check and confirm with the seller that the item to be purchased is EXACTLY the same as preported to be under the Discgos listed item as stated.

3 Never assume a seller is as attentive to detail, bothered, or has knowledge of specifics or what he or she is selling.
ALWAYS ask and get it confirmed.

Since I have started buying items from here, I have been sold either in error or deliberately, (Naturally, I would like to assume the former), :-

A bootleg recording which did NOT play the recording as listed and printed on the label, but a completely different track: The seller's response was "not my fault I can NOT play or check every item I have for sale"!

A listed item specifically as Mint but is actually poor with scratches, WOL writing on label (in thick felt pen), tatty and pre-used, written on inappropriate and incorrect paper inner sleeve (liner)

An item listed as in a PICTURE COVER but arrives in a random die-cut generic company sleeve, The seller's abusive response was "the sleeve (generic company) is a picture sleeve"

An item specifically listed/under as being STEREO but what arrives is the MONO release, even has a different label an I.E.P rather than paper and a different picture sleeve.

These events should not have happened and have not ALL been rectified or even apologised for.

On the plus side, I have had items arrive listed as being VG, but to me, and on playing etc, are more EX+ to Mint-.

I have even had a "bonus" item included that I did not expect or ask for.

So there are excellent and professional sellers and dealers out there, as well as the down-right awful/scum in it just for a quick buck!

Please please always "BUYER BE WARE"

All Sellers, please upgrade your standards/status and if your not 100% sure of what you are selling, then quite simply don't, don't waste the buyer's time, effort and money. Without the buyer, you would not be a seller!

Any one care to comment or add, please don't tell me I am a one-off/unique as I don't believe you! :)

Groovemaster-DJ
OR state what specifics that your copy/item does OR does NOT have as is OR is NOT is as listed.

This is already against the rules. If an item isn't identical to the entry in the DB a new entry has to be created before putting it up for sale. Notes stating the differences aren't allowed but I suppose it would be better than nothing.

That said, any seller too lazy to create an entry probably isn't going to refund you, including your return postage costs, so by the time you have the item in your hands and realise you have something you didn't want, it's too late.

So far I haven't received completely incorrect records or CDs but over-grading is rife on Discogs and most times even after recording what I received to show how bad the vinyl was the seller(s) didn't offer any help and Discogs didn't seem to care too much. On one occasion I was expected to be €18 out of pocket to return the item, and I was even 'warned' against leaving the seller negative .... pffft

On the plus side I have had 21 year old vinyl turn up in the exact same state as when I bought it back in 91 when it was first released and one of the sellers I buy from regularly does me good deals on shipping and sends me free CDs now and then....

I just wish Discogs would somehow enforce grading a bit better and help buyers a lot more when things go wrong.

Discogs can not enforce grading. They never even see the records or the money. To think that they can police misgradings is ridiculous.

And what do you expect Discogs to do? Ban the seller? Wag their finger negatively? Email the seller telling them to try to do a better job?

That is why it is your responsibility to either make it work, or make it known that the seller is doing a bad job. If the seller has policies that you don't feel are fair, leave negative and describe it all. Don't be scared of negative as a buyer as it doesn't really mean anything. If you are a good customer your rating will reflect that. 1 negative out of 100 s is still an A rating.

DON'T ALLOW SHADY SELLER FEAR MONGORING PRACTICES KEEP YOU FROM LEAVING HONEST .

If you want gradings enforced talk to PayPal. They refund your money just about every time.

Yep, on this issue discogs just take the money (from sellers) and run. If it wasn't for paypal protection I wouldnt use discogs, had problems like everyone else - its too common.

Sure its disapointing when you get a record in NM or VG+ and it skips or sounds like sandpaper but still worth shopping here cos records are cheap and easy to find.

actually, Discogs could change the policy; on another platform, a seller can only give a positive to a buyer; it makes sense; I am shure that if sellers could only *receive* s, the global grading on the marketplace would loose one or two points, I am shure that many EX or M, suddenly would become G, or VG; months ago I gave a bad to a seller who sold me junk - after two hours I got a negative , stating that I was a liar; now, as a buyer I don´t have many s, so I am now about 75% pos, the bad seller preserves anyway his 99% pos, since he has so many pos s; my policy now is never give a neg FB, if I can´t reach an agreement with a seller - but the agreement is meaningless in most cases: sellers usuallly don´t refund shipping costs, so shipping back a LP from to USA, for example, is more expensive than throwing it away

from a sellers perspective we're only human as is anyone else. mistakes happen occasionally. i have 100% positive as a seller but about a year ago i did have a guy leave me bad about a reggae 12" single i'd sold him and he said the condition was overgraded. i have 10's of 1000's of records so i don't play test everyone but visually this record was perfect and the bloke later agreed that it was and that the audible mark was invisible, therefore more than likely a slight pressing fault. probably the most annoyed i've ever been on discogs the morning i logged in and first saw this bad . anyone who leaves bad without making any effort to the seller is going about things totally the wrong way and what pissed me off even more was when i got onto him about the bad he said that prior to dealing with me he'd had a short run of bad dealings where all the items he bought he felt were undergraded and he itted that he'd left me bad purely because he was pissed off with all the other transactions prior to mine. i would have happily refunded him if he had just ed me but what can i do with no communication. he did get a refund but only because he had my bad removed. i made it perfectly clear that he had to do that to get his refund. fair is fair.

I agree, mistakes happen; if a LP has a near invisible scratch, and even if it sounds bad because the previous owner played it with a 10 kg stylus (obviously, the defect can't be seen) I always reach an agreement with seller; but if a seller sends me three mint LP, which had clearly used as frisbees, and I even had to stay at the custom office a couple of hours... well, this is not a good seller; we all make mistakes, but it is not difficoult to see when it is a mistake, and when the guy on the other side is selling you junk knowing that shipping it back would be too expensive

harikeo

 Groovemaster-DJ
OR state what specifics that your copy/item does OR does NOT have as is OR is NOT is as listed.

Regarding this being 'illegal' here on discogs, I'd say the reason why a lot of people will rather state in the comments than create a new listing and add one for sale there; is because nobody will ever know you have one for sale if you've created a fresh release entry.. If a buyer has on their want list the only version of a release, and someone puts it for sale, you receive a message..
If a seller lists exactly the same release but a repress or white label, nobody will be any the wiser and unless you're specifically checking discogs then you'd never know..
Would be good if discogs could create some 'auto-merge-wantlist' function.. that way everyone is asked once if they would like to be notified if versions of a master release on your wantlist are added... Opt in or decline.
Then much more sellers would bother creating exact release versions.. if you get my meaning..

ez m8 hope all is well :)

Jerooom
nobody will ever know you have one for sale if you've created a fresh release entry

when you add for ex a promo to an MR containing the full release anyone with notifications set will receive an inbox /email msg so some people will know , however the solution maybe this : if you add all to wantlist in MR maybe a notification will appear if a adds a promo to the db then to the to the MR and then lists it for sale...
my wantlist is very small so i am not sure whether this works but if not maybe the Kode monkeys of the site can add it as a feature you can enable in personal settings (some people may not want the option so i think the choice should be there
IMO that would easily solve the problem you mention m8

I think that the issue with grading has a lot to do with whether you buy to collect or play your records. For dj's, the playback quality matters more than anything else, whereas collectors have different criteria. About 1/3 of the records I buy on here are not accurately graded based on the sound quality of the record, but its tricky because a record might look -nm and sound like crap. Whatever you may think about the seller's responsibility, the reality is that they often do not listen to records before shipping them. If I'm buying from a new seller alot of times I will just message them and ask them to listen to the record to see how it sounds. About 25% of the time they get back to me with a different price because there happens to be issues with the sound quality. Buyers who don't like wasting time and money sending records back may want to get in the habit of doing this, because its less frustrating and no one has to worry about negative .

lcapofer
For dj's, the playback quality matters more than anything else, whereas collectors have different criteria.

... I'd like to know which criteria do have collectors... I'm not a DJ, I buy LPs because most of the vinyls published in the Sixties and Seventies are not available on CD, and if available, the original masters have been poorly treated
actually, when I buy a LP, I immediately make a digital copy with pro equipments and forget the vinyl on the shelf; if the LP is scratched, it can be the rarest LP in the world, but it doesn't interest me
i suppose that many others "collectors" are simply people who love music and whant to hear music
but may be I'm wrong!

Jerooom
nobody will ever know you have one for sale if you've created a fresh release entry

Not at all > I've sold several times an item within 12 hours of submitting it in Discogs as a new entry although other editions were already listed.
I don't see why some sellers don't bother with listing the EXACT release they have, it really doesn't take too long and if you've received a Violation flag you'd know it's worth it in the long run as you'd have to resubmit the entry from scratch anyway.
I sell some of my stuff here because I can't stand "auction type" sites where I've nearly always received stuff that was way overgraded. Paypal protection is not going to be of any use if a seller states first edition when it's not. When a seller sent me a 45 with such a deep scratch that a Technics SL1200 couldn't handle at all and still graded VG I requested a refund but was told to return ALL of the items I'd successfully bid on for a refund. Well, I did keep all the records but guess who got negative . Unfortunately these rogue sellers just move on and get another ID and soon they have 100% again.

just_the_sound
anyone who leaves bad without making any effort to the seller is going about things totally the wrong way

Discogs ought to help this situation by allowing the removal of when there has been no communication giving the seller a chance to rectify a possible mistake.

IMO grading should be accurate and any grading specifics help give the buyer an idea of what you may mean by VG+ for instance. I have sold the odd Mint record or two but I'm now reluctant to use this as on a couple of occasions I've had the customer complain about a single click or pop even though the vinyl in question was kept untouched and unplayed for decades. For this same reason I'd be rather against the idea of buyers requesting a seller to play throughout a whole record, this is simply not possible when you have stock in the thousands and little time to make everyone happy. Even when someone comes to the counter in a shop a request like that is not going to go down too well. Not albums anyway, not valuable records, not remixes, not reggae singles, not chart stuff in a new shop, not cheapo stuff in a bargain bin, no, it's not OK. I used to get queues of kids asking to play records that they never intended to buy. Some would come hang out just to hear stuff on a good system, some would bring their own tunes to hear them like they were in a studio or at a rave, bless 'em. A couple of guys would often come in and deliberately scratch a section of a record they didn't need to play and demand a price cut. Well they did try. Others regularly made off with the sleeves to hang on their walls. [I have a whole bunch of £100+ 60s LP with no sleeves now, Hendrix - Axis, Rolling Stones - Satanic Majesty's and more] but these fools don't realise that you often paid over the odds for a rare record... enough to make you want to give up. Thankfully this won't happen online but there are still pitfalls.
In general I try to accommodate genuine inquiries, like if someone wants a few pictures [to establish if a sleeve is too damaged or not, for instance] that may be OK but, however much I care about giving a good impression of the kind of service one can expect around here, I'm not going to be happy to photo/scan and email just anybody that sends me a message - especially as most of these 'buyers' tend to be newbies to Discogs and have 0 .
The solution is simple:

Groovemaster-DJ
Make 100% sure that what you are offering for sale is EXACTLY the same as the listing

Amen groovemaster! Here and elsewhere, always be sure to ask if the grading is strictly visual or whether it has been play graded. I bought a "mint" LP that had a needle stopping skip near the end; it did look beautiful however. Turned out the guy hadn't played it--we did agree on a partial refund so it turned out ok. I now always ask if the record has been play graded if it's not mentioned and have found that most are not, however just about every seller has replied by listening to it and telling me how it sounded. If it really matters to you, ask if it's not mentioned. Don't assume it's anything but a visual grading.

Hi Gilgar, hadn't thought of that play graded nice one.
My main gripe is audio status and pressing status a later repress or a vile I.E.P in silver paint is not the same where a "Master" listing image is an original paper label pressing.

Likewise an LP for sale listed under the "Master" listing as the Stereo version the image(s) confirm this as normally the catalogue and matrix numbers and codes.
yet the version that the seller is trying to palm off is the Mono version and that has now happened to me three times in clear visuals and now twice by Record Company deception where they state an album or boxset singles are stereo when infact they are mono! It is very distressing and very annoying I think play audio status is now as vital to me as play graded. The Seller, as the Buyer should never ever assume anything.
Confirm and get it checked out.

The ultimate Discogs seller offence for me was a guy who sold me a Motown 12" that label stated Stevie Wonder " Isn't She Lovely" but was actually "I Wish" knowing pressings etc etc visually looking at the cut it was obvious this was not going to be the full 8 or 9 min album cut gem but a 3-4 min edit.
The Seller had an absolute duty of care to me and sell me what I had paid up-front for.
I had no idea it was an illegal boot, I naturally thought it was a legit promo or special from Motown in not a vile boot using copied artwork for UK RCA-BMG Motown 12" labels and die-cut sleeves. I paid a lot for a fake and did not get a Euro back and the cheek of old Harry I would have to pay the Postage for the return!!
Errrr no no-way your gaff/devious item yours to fully re-dress The seller hid behind pigeon-English and then sent me neg feed back as a buyer I complained to Discos and still that neg on me is there and you are given less than one line to print a reply ! :( Gerrrrrrrrr

I think that a professional seller can't listen to all his/her records; three days ago I bought on line three LPs in a well-known shop here in Berlin, ; after a couple of hours I found another disc I was interested to, it was not possible to add it to the previous order, so I received a new invoice; counting the invoices' numbers, in those two hours, that seller received twentythree new orders - how could those guys carefully listen to all those discs? - carefully, with headphones on, ready to catch every possible defect; I think that part of collecting something is the risk you sometimes get something bad; I know that every 10 discs, probably at least one is bad; many sellers get the defective disc back, others say you are crazy, but this is the real life...

I agree andrant, a professional seller with a huge stock can't listen to everything, however they can mention in their ads, that it hasn't been listened to and that they are grading it strictly by appearance. Then a buyer can decided whether to bid or buy accordingly.

I don't mind a risk when I'm getting a record for a couple of bucks, but if I'm paying $50 or more, I want to know and although many allow returns, you are often required to pay the return shipping. That's one thing when you are just disagreeing with their grading but when an album is listed as mint and either has skips, is warped or has really bad noise then the seller should pick up the return costs. I generally expect some noise with records and don't really mind it as long as it doesn't distract from the music.

I hate dealing with returns at all even if the seller pays for return shipping. I'd rather know they didn't listen to it and avoid it completely unless it's really rare or a great bargain-- just my 2¢. Luckily most sellers are pretty cool and will give it a listen if you ask.

I agree, gilgar, anyway I never met a seller who declared he/she (ah, the politically correct!) listen to the discs; another interesting point would be perhaps the sellers who wash the discs before seling them; probably they think to make a service, anyway I never buy an already-washed vinyl; no exact reasons, I feel there is something wrong... but perhaps I'm wrong

tekkno-guy
Discogs can not enforce grading. They never even see the records or the money.

"Discogs" makes 8% of any sale on their site. So they see money & the fact they claim little or no liability with a DB thats content is built by the s, with a dept that puts the frame work in and just keeps it running honestly seems a bit high, but its the price we pay for trying to get to buy some new records with the funds from some old records we have.

If I see releases which are obviously wrongly listed, then how do I report that?

For example this:
http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/buy/Vinyl/Rush-Clockwork-Angels/112800158?ev=bp_rel_det

In the comments is writte black vinyl whilst it is listed under a quite rare red vinyl release.

Get a life.

ringorider
Get a life.

Thank you for this Interesting, constructive, and friendly reply.
I think it's important because such entries can potentially pollute sales history of an item.

Huub123
If I see releases which are obviously wrongly listed, then how do I report that?

You press "Report Item".. And then select the reason for reporting in the drop-down menu... In this case "Not actual Item". That's it :)

ringorider
Get a life.

Are you selling one then?... Or, are you're looking to buy one for yourself? In either case, wrong thread darling.

I used to add bonus items. I have multiples of certain things I'd gotten from Johnny Otis. I'd add three or four of something, mostly not real common and similar to what the buyer was purchasing (unplayed maroon Capitol releases from the 1950's for example). I paid any extra postage too.

I stopped doing that when some prick came back to me and said thanks but they really didn't do much for him.

And then there are the people I have to continually try to to see if they got their goods.

There are all kinds out there.

we have two buildings with records. we're open every day except monday, with two locations on weekends.

i sell online as well and recently started listing items here.

so far, so good.

there is no way i'd have time to listen to thousands of used records to play grade them.
some of us are business owners with a huge workload.

nobody is there to bail out or subsidize small business owners. we wear dozens of hats.
listening to a building full of used records would put me out of business. i have more important tasks.

there aren't many places in the world that will issue a return for used purchases.
in the rest of the world it is buyer beware, all sales final. just sayin'

i never really had anyone request that from me in all these years,
at many different online portals, or face to face in a brick & mortar store.

as a seller, i have years of happy campers, not returned goods.

consumers these days aren't the same as the old days.
back then, people would just purchase records for the music, not the value,
or pressing data minutia... or even rarity. it was all about the music.

kinda miss that.

do the right thing and it all works out fine, is my business mantra.