CDs: Disque Americ Matrix layout and years?

(Sorry if this should have been in advanced discussion)

Background: I came across a CD (Marillion - Misplaced Childhood) that matches everything except the matrix. Mine says DISQUE AMERIC 09351<011>C246160, in a completely different font (still valid for Disque Americ, I don't have a bootleg of this one).

Looking over the Disque Americ entires (ignoring the fact that some CDs were "made" before the plant opened), there seems to be no real guideline for when which matrix layout was used. Looking at the pictures on the releases providing them there's no pattern between the alleged release date and the layout.

If there is no way to tell for this plant, what should be the default unique vs variant strategy? (Hopefully to be documented on the pressing plant info page after discussion?)

When the matrix layout varies as much as it does, for me, it has value to distinguish between the layouts on a release level instead of variant level, as in the event of adding scans, the scan should match (approx.) the variants listed.

Warepire In this special case, and having looked at everything several times, I would enter this as a new sub - and I would add pictures of everything (specially matrix close-up).
The truth is so much of what gets put on in matrix is still information that eludes us although we may have a vague idea of it. That being said, since we cannot determine what all those numbers exactly mean, I would say the matrix variant (in this case it varies a lot!) warrants a new sub. Perhaps it's a repress (my guess).

Note* - a great deal of matrix variants usually only have a few smaller numbers or sections that vary, which could really signify a different stamper and nothing more. Your difference in matrix really tells me different pressing at a different time.

Will add it as a new release as soon as I get the time to do some scans. Thank you for the advice.

zemyk4e
I would say the matrix variant (in this case it varies a lot!) warrants a new sub.

I don't agree; it clearly tells that it was press at a different time, but it don't necessarly means a different pressing. Unless the production of the release was stopped between the two versions, it is still a variant in my opinion, not a repress.

That's exactly why I made the topic (lucky me I didn't make the submission yet). Finding approximate ranges for each matrix layout, if there is one, would clarify if it's a variant or a different press.

I would appreciate some more discussion on this one, currently it's 50/50.

Here's a scan of the matrix on my copy for easier comparison with the entry: https://imgur.com/lMaRRsQ

Warepire
Looking over the Disque Americ entires (ignoring the fact that some CDs were "made" before the plant opened), there seems to be no real guideline for when which matrix layout was used. Looking at the pictures on the releases providing them there's no pattern between the alleged release date and the layout.

If there is no way to tell for this plant, what should be the default unique vs variant strategy? (Hopefully to be documented on the pressing plant info page after discussion?)

There may be, but no one has tried to decipher or explain it yet.

For the moment, since we have no firm window of likely manufacture date for either one, I see no value or reason in separate submissions (unless your copy has SID codes while the current one does not).

For me it's decently clear it was pressed at 2 different intervals, but I do have to agree with your point. I'll add it as a variant. Thank you.

It can be split later on if someone cracks the matrix code schema and their approximate dates.

"don't necessarly means a different pressing"
+1

Given everything else is equal, and no SID codes presence vs absent, releases are the same, similar argument here: https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/forum/thread/777857?utm_campaign=thread-notify&utm_medium=pm&page=1&utm_source=relationship#7715477

From what I've noticed, the patterns with (see Tom Cochrane & Red Rider - Victory Day):
"20N/C2-26570" are older than ones like "Q272<011>C226570"
BUT this is with matrices that have "made by/fabriqué par DISQUE AMERIC [logo] CANADA"
The Marillion example is altogether different, and I have no idea when to place it.

Some CDs in the 80s and maybe early 90s have text moulded in the hub, too, such as with Variant 1 in the Red Rider example:
"DISQUE AMERIC INC J"
The last two CDs with the moulded text that I've come across has the trailing "J", but I don't recall if the letter varies.
CDs with the moulded text often have a little black "notch" on the artwork side of the CD, at 9 o'clock (see https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/New-Order-Substance/release/11600184#images/32882875 ).
From the looks of it (compare the New Order example between CDs 1 and 2), the CDs with moulded text isn't necessarily earlier than ones without. I think some pressing machines added the text, while other machines didn't.

Some late 80s to early 90s Disque Americ pressings suffer from rot. They may play okay, but when you try to rip them accurately, you will see a lot of re-reads/errors. From what I can guess, it seems certain pressing machines were defective, so some CDs from this era may be okay, while some are crap. In other words, there's no easy way to tell if it's rotten or not until you buy and try.