MFSL: Adding series "Ultradisc", "Ultradisc II" and "Ultradisc UHR"?

Hi folks!

I Think it would be fine to add series entries like "Ultradisc", "Ultradisc II" and "Ultradisc UHR" to all MFSL (SA)CD-Releases.

For collectors these series entries would be be very helpful.

My suggested series entries to use are e.g.:
http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/902147-UltradiscTM
http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/901965-Ultradisc-II
http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/436112-Ultradisc-UHRTM-GAIN-2TM-Series

Any other suggestions for other/additional entries?

VarUniiX According their website there are several series:

Ultradisc UHR™ SACD
And this is divided into subcategories:

Ultradisc UHR™ Stereo Hybrid
Ultradisc UHR™ Mono Hybrid
Ultradisc UHR™ Multichannel Hybrid

Forgot to mention the last one...
Ultradisc II Gold CD

Those are not series.

Ultradisc is MOFI's marketing term for its gold CDs. The original Ultradisc were pressed in Japan; Ultradisc II were pressed in the US.

NeoSoulGroove
According their website there are several series:

Show me where they call it a series …
They are listed as used technologies: http://www.mofi.com/Articles.asp?ID=254

DetroitBootyBass
Those are not series.

+1

Ultradisc UHR™ GAIN 2™ Series – Where's the word series in the logo?
A logo for a mastering technology doesn't make a series.
Would be candidates for the new Trademark thingie … but no series.
For me the same as 20bit K2 Super Coding Digital K2 etc.

See http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/forum/thread/697566
That would be a way …

Right. They're no "series" at all. I simply thought ing the series tag to ensure a better overview of these different "series".

I have cleared the profiles and invalidated all three Non-Series now as per creator of series, website and series definition of Discogs. Feel free to create a list or in discussion Branding: http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/forum/thread/697566

typoman2
I have cleared the profiles and invalidated all three Non-Series

They are a series. The Mofi website advises and advised it. it has noteable branding. Even if the word series is absent, the consistent branding is enough.

typoman2
Where's the word series in the logo?

I would have named it "Ultradisc II" myself but the name used above was the full name given on Mofi.com at the time (on the individual sales pages for each CD they d) - similar to this:
http://screencast.com/t/aNrb5WcNHzk

DetroitBootyBass
Those are not series.

If this is entered purely as a description of a technique used, why use VERY consistent branding and why market based on that consistency. The reason is that it;s a series as they used to advise on their website up til around 2011 on their item sales page (for each CD) when they changed the configuration of their website.

Well, Eviltoastman … the thread has been up for 3 months.
After the creator of the so called series himself has itted they are no series (and I still say it's a technology branding as 20bit K2 Super Coding etc.) I have waited for another 5 days for opinions before invalidating.
Can't do more than follow the protocol.

I cleaned up all releases in the invalidated series. I hope this mass edit according to this thread was ok.

VarUniiX
I hope this mass edit according to this thread was ok.

Thank you and yes, it was.

I think you did the right thing. I never really paid much attention to it before but I see nothing that points to your having been mistaken in doing so. Actually, I'm glad you cleared it up for us.

typoman2
Can't do more than follow the protocol.

We can agree a correct series name or agree that it was already correct and edit the releases which have had valid information removed from them as we should correct instead of removing incorrect data (it is not yet proven that it is incorrect as this is precisely how Mofi marketed the series between 2008 and 2010 - but I would prefer Ultradisc and Ultradisc II).

typoman2
After the creator of the so called series himself has itted they are no series (and I still say it's a technology branding as 20bit K2 Super Coding etc.)

I'm not going to comment on that thread right now.

Series - A branded series of releases. These will usually be a number of releases on one label, carrying a distinct extra branding indicating a series. The most common and sure way of knowing if something is a series is when the word 'series' appears in the name, for example, "The Silver Spotlight Series". The word can also appear on the back of the release, or externally on official websites or publications.

Sometimes, it is not apparent whether the branding is meant to be a series or a label, for example "Talkin' Loud Classics". Treat it as a label until there is proof it should be a series.

Compilations that are sequentially numbered can be added as a series. They are usually on one label, contain tracks by different artists, only have one version of each release, possibly two or three, and have a common theme running through their titles / artwork / tracks. Larger 'volume compilations' may have a redesign during their lifespan, but the theme will remain - usually in the title.

Releases that are not a series include numbered or otherwise ordered original works by an artist, for example, Led Zeppelin l / II / III / IV, Beethoven's Symphony No.1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 etc, Selected Ambient Works 85-92 and Selected Ambient Works Volume II. If the releases are connected in some manner, but have no branding on the releases, then are not considered a series - for example, Drexciya "Storms". Branding for an album and related set of singles, promos etc when the concept falls short of being a proper series, and isn't called one by the label, should not be treated as a series - for example, "Motown Remixed".

Other words can be used to indicate a series, for example, "collection".

If the releases in the series have a number associated with them, this can be entered into the 'catalog number' field adjacent to the series name. Enter the numbering as it appears on the release, for example, "Vol. One", "Part 6". When possible, don't repeat the series name in the series number, for example, "The Greatest Hits '92 - Vol. 4" would be entered as "'92 - Vol. 4" .

The alternative to listing it as a series would be to list it as a label.

This is the guideline. As you can see the term "series" does not have to appear on the release but it must be understood to be a series and website verification is fine. nik advised here:

nik
20 Bit Remastered seems ok as a series - it is branded and called a series. Generic series names should not preclude them being series on Discogs.

http://www.discogs.sitioby.com/forum/thread/326128#3077802

Whether the guideline and nik's advice in that quote were followed in your linked example is something I will explore. I am currently not certain that proper checks were made prior to the conclusion. If it was not and is externally referred to as a series by a good source I will certainly consider re-opening the issue. Certainly the issue we are discussing is more akin the the topic Nik commented on for 20 bit Remastering since we have concrete examples of the term Series being applied by the responsible label.

typoman2
After the creator of the so called series himself has itted they are no series

Actually, he mass edited the original series he had no part in creating without a discussion then said Ultradisc 2 wasn;t a series after some assumptions based on incommensurable forum discussions ;)

VarUniiX
I simply thought ing the series tag to ensure a better overview of these different "series".

I didn't thought about the guidelines and I didn't thought about (existing) discussions. I simply started mass-editing for the quoted reason.

And now after knowing that the use of the series-tag was improper I cleaned up all the releases in the invalidated series.

Sorry for that!

They are a series. They have clear branding and are used to delineate which type of technology was used to create the particular Mofi disc. This is ENTIRELY relevant due to the types of releases Mofi makes. I wish I had been paying closer attention here. I have not been able to devote my time to Discogs for several months now. These series have been handled entirely wrongly, and now good data has been removed from the database. This needs to be fixed.

In spite of the post above mine that might be saying that it has been fixed, it has not.

comment removed by spatafore

VarUniiX
I cleaned up all releases in the invalidated series. I hope this mass edit according to this thread was ok.

that means that we can create two entries, one for ultradisc japan and other for ultradisc II usa? I hope so because are DIFFERENT! and collectors like me like see individual things, is slow ask to sellers "hey your copy is ultradisc o ultradisc II????" actually both have different dates.

so I can create individual entries?

noirday
so I can create individual entries?

Open a separate thread, present your proof they are indeed series and separate series and let the community decide.

typoman2
spataforeso I can create individual entries?
Open a separate thread, present your proof they are indeed series and separate series and let the community decide.

thanks, well maybe yes, but why not here, is the same question or well very related.

If you're asking whether there can be two separate submissions - one for an original Ultradisc I issue of an MFSL disc, and one for a later Ultradisc II repress - most definitely. See Disraeli Gears, for example. Being pressed in different plants (and continents) immediately makes them both eligible. But "Ulltradisc I" and "Ultradisc II" should not be listed as a Series for these releases - it should go in the Release Note. - see new ruling below

noirday
but why not here, is the same question or well very related

Because we do it this way … seperate subject, sparate thread.

I am amazed that there is no response to my post in this thread from 2 months ago. Please, explain concisely right here how the very clear branding of Ultradisc, Ultradisc II and Ultradisc UHR on these releases does not qualify as being separate Series for Mobile Fidelity? It's not just text. It is a branding. This mass edit was wrong.

MasterSound (4)? Should I keep going? Is anyone in fact going to reply this time?

Is the problem that this is simply a semantic debate? I don't think there is *one* definition for the term "series".

Not sure if this helps, but:

> Mobile Fidelity is proud to release Primus’s Animals Should Not Try To Act Like People EP on its *GAIN 2 Ultra Analog series*

- https://web.archive.org/web/20040611023206/http://www.mofi.com/

> While the interview focused mostly on the release of his ground-breaking album "Drive" on *Ultradisc UHR™ Discovery Series*

- https://web.archive.org/web/20050401233820/http://www.mofi.com/

I wouldn't call that conclusive, but it appears MoFi did use the term "series" on a few occasions.

35DP

If you're asking whether there can be two separate submissions - one for an original Ultradisc I issue of an MFSL disc, and one for a later Ultradisc II repress - most definitely. See Disraeli Gears and Disraeli Gears, for example. Being pressed in different plants (and continents) immediately makes them both eligible. But "Ulltradisc I" and "Ultradisc II" should not be listed as a Series for these releases - it should go in the Release Note.

yeap! thanks I agree, separate items, even both share same masterings etc... they are different, so I continue adding separate.

about the series, I don't know but just ! each "thing": ultradisc, ultradisc II, ultradisc UHR is an attempt from MOFI to make better the sound quality.

It seems to be used constantly enough to be considered a series by our guidelines.

Quotes from the actual MOFI website:

"The company returns to vinyl production with the introduction of the ANADISQ™ 200 LP series..."
"The highly successful Ultradisc UHR™ SACD series..."
"The legendary Ultradisc II 24 KT. Gold CD line"

Thank you Diognes.To the s who removed all of these Series: please undo all of your edits, as soon as you are able.

Firstly I started a mass edit to apply the series. Then I removed all the series according to this thread.

Should I now re-apply all series?

Yes, none of these series should have been removed from the database.

Somewhere above in this thread the opposite was said after I applied the series in many entries. :-/

But ok...I'll start doin' that later.

Diognes_The_Fox

Which series should I apply and how should they called exactly?

My suggestions:

Ultradisc™
Ultradisc II™
Ultradisc UHR™

I'd leave out the "TM", that's not part of the name.

I also think the TM should be left out.

Alright.

Actual suggestions for series entries and spelling are:

Ultradisc
Ultradisc II
Ultradisc UHR

Any further suggestions for series entries?

VarUniiX
Ultradisc
Ultradisc II
Ultradisc UHR

+1

progcode
+1

That works for me.

Diognes_The_Fox

Than I'll start mass editing soon referring to this thread.

Do I have your (as a member of the Discogs staff) "official" permission to do so?

VarUniiX
Alright.

Actual suggestions for series entries and spelling are:

Ultradisc
Ultradisc II
Ultradisc UHR

Any further suggestions for series entries?

also the:

UHQR https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/308791-UHQR-Vinyl-Series
and
ANADISQ™ 200 (1994-1996) https://img.discogs.sitioby.com/Xpd9oZqWqDeEwJCmediiXVNGfeM=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2710232-1450106351-6232.jpeg.jpg

both for vinyl

noirday
UHQR https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/308791-UHQR-Vinyl-Series
and
ANADISQ™ 200 (1994-1996) https://img.discogs.sitioby.com/Xpd9oZqWqDeEwJCmediiXVNGfeM=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2710232-1450106351-6232.jpeg.jpg

UHQR Vinyl Series looks to me like it should just be "UHQR". And "Anadisq 200" looks like it would probably merit being a series. Do you have a list of ones that show that branding?

I just noticed that there is already a company entry for Ultradisc that is unrelated to MFSL. Perhaps this is why someone previously had added this one with the TM. This is going to make a likely confusing "Ultradisc (2)' for Ultradisc, and "Ultradisc II' for the second series. Yuck.

progcode

Woul it be possible to rename this existing non-MFSL-related Ultradisc entry to "Ultradisc (2)"? If so the name entry "Ultradisc" could be used for the MFSL-related entries.

progcode
spataforeUHQR https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/308791-UHQR-Vinyl-Series
and
ANADISQ™ 200 (1994-1996) https://img.discogs.sitioby.com/Xpd9oZqWqDeEwJCmediiXVNGfeM=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2710232-1450106351-6232.jpeg.jpg
UHQR Vinyl Series looks to me like it should just be "UHQR". And "Anadisq 200" looks like it would probably merit being a series. Do you have a list of ones that show that branding?

Original Master Recording UHQR Vinyl
=============================
catalog number artist title
005 Supertramp Crime Of The Century
017 Pink Floyd The Dark Side Of The Moon
025 Earl Klugh Finger Paintings
035 Cat Stevens Tea For The Tillerman
084 The Alan Parson's Project I Robot
100 The Beatles Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
507 Maazel & The Cleveland Symphany Feste Romane
510 Sir George Solti & The London Philharmonic Holst: The Planets

Original Master Recording Anadisq Vinyl
==============================
catalog number date released artist title
199 Jan-94 Manhattan Transfer Extensions
201 Jan-94 Muddy Waters Folk Singer
202 Feb-94 Pink Floyd Atom Heart Mother
203 Jan-94 Emerson, Lake & Palmer Tarkus
204 Apr-94 Alan Parsons Tales of Mystery
205 Dec-94 Modern Jazz Quartet Modern Jazz Quartet
206 Sep-94 Modern Jazz Quartet Blues At Carnige Hall
207 Jun-95 U2 Unforgettable Fire
208 Sep-94 Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto Getz/Gilberto
209 Sep-94 Traffic Low Spark of High Heeled Boys
210 Nov-94 John Hiatt Bring the Family
211 Jan-95 Queen The Game
212 Nov-94 Jean Michel Jarre Oxygene
213 Feb-95 The Allman Brothers Brothers & Sisters
214 Jan-95 Duke Ellington Anatomy Of A Murder
215 Jan-95 Moody Blues Threshold Of A Dream
216 Dec-94 Dave Brubeck We're All Together For The First Time
217 Feb-95 Cray, Collins & Copeland Showdown
218 Mar-95 Emerson, Lake & Palmer Trilogy
219 Mar-95 Woody Herman The Fourth Heard
220 Mar-95 Eric Clapton Eric Clapton
221 Apr-95 Bob Marley Exodus
222 Apr-95 John Mellencamp Lonesome Jubilee
223 Apr-95 Joe Cocker Shefield Steel
224 May-95 Hank Crawford Soul of the Ballad
2-225 May-95 Todd Rundgren Something, Anything
226 May-95 Albert Collins Cold Snap
227 Jun-95 Jean Michel Jarre Equinoxe
228 Jun-95 Modern Jazz Quartet At The Music Inn
2-229 Jul-95 Elliot Lawrence Music of Elliot Lawrence
230 Jul-95 Rick Wakeman Journey To The Center of the Earth
231 Aug-95 R.E.M. Murmur
232 Aug-95 Moody Blues Every Good Boy Deserves Favor
233 Aug-95 Sonny Terry & Brownie Mcgee Sonny & Brownie
234 Jul-95 Gerry Mulligan & Ben Webster Mulligan & Webster
235 Sep-95 B.B. King Lucille
236 Nov-95 Bob Marley Catch A Fire
237 Sep-95 Count Basie April In Paris
238 Sep-95 Joan Baez Diamonds & Rust
2-239 Feb-96 Derek & The Dominos In Concert
240 Oct-95 Bernard Herrmann Fantasy Film World of Bernard Herrmann
241 Oct-95 Gerry Mulligan & Paul Desmond Mulligan & Desmond
2-242 Dec-95 Sy Oliver Oliver's Twist
243 Nov-95 Oscar Peterson & Milt Jackson Very Tall
244 Oct-95 Cat Stevens Teaser and the Fire Cat
245 Nov-95 Average White Band Average White Band
246 Dec-95 John Mayall The Blues Alone
247 Dec-95 Billie Holiday Body and Soul
2-248 Jan-96 Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong Ella & Louie Again
249 Mar-96 Boston Boston
250 Feb-96 Toto IV
251 Jul-96 Blood, Sweat & Tears Blood, Sweat & Tears
252 Jan-96 Neil Young Old Ways
253 Mar-96 Moody Blues To Our Children's Children's Children
254 Jul-96 Cat Stevens IZITSO
255 May-96 Bernard Herrmann Four Faces of Jazz
256 May-96 Queen A Day At The Races
257 Apr-96 Sonic Youth Goo
258 Apr-96 Nirvana Nevermind
260 Jun-96 Bing Crosby & Buddy Bregman Bing Crosby & Buddy Bregman
261 Aug-96 R.E.M Reckoning
2-262 Sep-96 Peter Frampton Frampton Comes Alive
263 Aug-96 Bee Gees Trafalgar
264 N/A Cream Goodybe
265 Jun-96 Alexis Korner R&B From The Marquee
267 N/A Robin Trower (Not Released)
268 N/A Thelonious Monk Vol.1 (Not Released)
269 N/A Thelonious Monk Vol. 2 (Not Released)

noirday

Very cool! Thanks for the list.

So... First step of the series-update is done. I applied the "Ultradisc UHR" series tag in all SACD releases. Hope everything's ok now.

https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/label/1009719-Ultradisc-UHR

During this I found two possible duplicates (Patricia Barber - Companion and Frank Sinatra - No One Cares) where I started a merge vote.

Data quality and merge votes are welcome. Thanks!

VarUniiX
Woul it be possible to rename this existing non-MFSL-related Ultradisc entry to "Ultradisc (2)"? If so the name entry "Ultradisc" could be used for the MFSL-related entries.

Unfortunately, we are not allowed to do that.

progcode
Unfortunately, we are not allowed to do that.

That's too bad. :-(

VarUniiX
spatafore

Very cool! Thanks for the list.

no problem, by the way theres a "Aluminium" CDs by MFSL, that was released before the "Gold" CDs, but that ones don't have any series, just are know it like "Aluminium" MFSL CDs, the cat# starts with "MFCD".

the name "Aluminium" is just to refer that is made like a normal silver cd... not gold cd like the Ultradisc's.
http://www.keithhirsch.com/wordpress/wp-content/s/mfsl-cocker-mad-dogs_500.jpg

one example here on discogs: https://www.discogs.sitioby.com/sell/release/4871983?ev=rb

here's the list:

catalog number artist title
2-747 The Firesign Theatre Back From The Shadows
748 The Firesign Theatre Fighting Clowns
749 Eddie Hinton Letters From Mississippi
750 Webb Pierce Sweet Memories & Sands Of Gold
751 The Dixie Hummingbirds Every Day And Every Hour & We Love You Like A Rock
752 Chris Spedding Café Days
753 Toots & The Maytals And Others Live At Sunsplash, Reggae Festival
754 The Nighhawks Open All Nite
755 Phil Woods Quartet More Live
756 The Pilgrim Jubilee Singers Walk On & The Old Ship Of Zion
757 The Amos Garrett, Doug Sahm, Gene Taylor Band Live In Japan
758 The Firesign Theatre Dear Friends
759 Levon Helm Levon Helm
2-760 The Swan Silverstones, Rev June Cheeks & The Sunset Travelers Raisin' The Roof
761 Levon Helm Levon Helm And The Rco All-Stars
762 The Firesign Theatre Waiting For The Electrician Or Someone Like Him
763 The Gospelaires Can I Get A Witness & Bones In The Valley
764 Taj Mahal Recycling The Blues & Other Related Stuff
765 Taj Mahal Happy Just To Be Like I Am
766 Little Milton Age Ain't Nothin But A Number
767 Sensational Nightingales Heart And Soul & You Know Not The Hour
768 Amos Garrett I Make My Home In My Shoes
769 Five Blind Boys Of Mississippi My Desire & Somewhere There's A God
770 Bobby Bland Touch Of The Blues & Spotlighting The Man
771 The Dixie Hummingbirds Live (Hard Gospel Quartet)
772 The Flying Burrito Bros. The Flying Burrito Bros.
773 Maxine Sullivan Singing The Music Of Burton Lane
774 Joshua Breakstone 4/4=1
775 Charles Musselwhite Memphis, Tennessee
776 Quincy Jones Smackwater Jack
777 Joe Walsh Barnstorm
778 Zero Here Goes Nothin'
779 Waylon Jennings The Taker-Tulsa & Honky Tonk Heroes
780 Big Joe Turner Singing The Blues
781 Arturo Delmoni Sonatas Of Franck & Faure
782 Harry Belafonte Belafonte Returns To Carnegie Hall
783 Charles Mingus Mingus Plays Piano
784 Zero Nothin' Goes Here
785 Firesign Theatre I Think We're All Bozos. . .
786 Claus Ogermann & The London Symphony Orchestra Symphonic Dances
2-787 Chet Atkins Pickin' My Way
788 Procol Harum Live With The Edmonton Symphony Orchestra
789 The James Gang Live In Concert
790 Brideshead Revisited Soundtrack
791 Billard & Clark The Great Expedition; Through The Morning Through The Night
792 The Youngbloods Elephant Mountain
793 Procol Harum Home
794 Phil Ochs Gunfight At Carnegie Hall
795 Bert Kaempfert The Best Of The Bert Kaempfert
796 The Starlight Orchestra In A Christmas Mood
797 Various Artists Soundtrack From Porky's Revenge
798 Various Artists The Steeple On The Common
799 Various Artists New England Christmastide II
800 Spirit Twelve Dreams Of Doctor Sardonicus
801 Sonny Rollins Way Out West
802 Stanislaw Skrowaczewski & Minnesota Orchestra Ravel: Bolero, Rhapsodie Espagnole, Pavine
803 Al Stewart Year Of The Cat
804 The Alan Parsons Project I Robot
805 Art Pepper & Eleven Modern Jazz Classics
806 Andrew Powell & Philharmonic Orchestra Best Of The Alan Parsons Project
2-807 Louis Armstrong/Duke Ellington The Great Reunion
808 Leonard Slatkin & St. Louis Symphony Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky, Op. 78
809 Shelly Manne & Friends My Fair Lady
810 David Foster The Best Of Me
811 Thomas Schippers & Cincinnati Symphony Strauss Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel
812 Environmental Sonics The Power & The Majesty, Vol. Ii
2-813 The Blues A Real Summit Meeting (Live)
814 Susskind & St. Louis Symphony Dvorak: Piano Concerto In G Minor
815 The Kazu Matsui Project (Featuring Robben Ford) Standing On The Outside
4-816 Woodstock Includes Woodstock I And II
817 Thomas Schippers & Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra Schubert: Symphony No. 9
818 Michael McNabb Computer Music
819 Skrowaczewski & The Minnesota Orchestra Bartok: Music For String, Percussion And Celesta
820 Aretha Franklin Live At The Fillmore West
821 Mystic Moods Orchestra Another Stormy Night
822 The Tubes The Tubes
823 Procol Harum A Salty Dog
2-824 Joe Cocker Mad Dogs And Englishmen
825 Johnny Mathis Heavenly
826 Max Roach & Clifford Brown Daahound
827 Modern Jazz Quartet Live At The Lighthouse
828 Miles Davis Someday My Prince Will Come
829 Loggins & Messina Sittin' In
830 Grateful Dead From The Mars Hotel
2-831 Roy Budd & London Symphony Orchestra The Final Frontier
832 The Staple Singers Respect Yourself
833 Jimmy Raney Two Jims And A Zoot
834 Firesign Theatre How Can You Be In Two Places . . .
835 Booker T & The Mg's McLemore Avenue
836 Maxine Sullivan Songs From The Cotton Club
837 Steve Cropper With A Little Help From My Friends
838 Albert King Live Wire/Blues Power
839 Harry Betts & Orchestra Jazz Soul Of Dr. Kildare
840 Billie Holiday In Rehearsal
841 Charlie Barnet Big Band 1967
842 Zoot Sims Zoot At Ease
843 Maynard Ferguson The Blues Roar
2-844 Sarah Vaughan The Complete Live In Japan Set
845 The Wind In The Rigging Seafaring Songs
846 Procol Harum Broken Barricades
847 Humble Pie Rock On
848 Rick Wakeman Journey To The Centre Of The Earth
849 Ike & Tina Turner River Deep, Mountain High
850 Rosemary Clooney & Duke Ellington Blue Rose
851 Elmer Bernstein Movie & TV Themes
852 Fedoseyev & USSR TV & Radio Large Symphony Orchestra Glazunov: Symphony No. 2
853 Shelley Manne Mannekind
2-854 Various Artist: A Tribute To Steve Goodman
855 Sarah Vaughan A Time In My Life
856 John Prine Aimless Love
857 Muggsy Spanier & His Dixieland Band The Gem Of The Ocean
858 Fedoseyev & USSR TV And Radio Large Symphony Orchestra Rachmaninov: Symphonic Dances
859 Nekrasov & USSR TV & Radio Symphony Orchestra The Evening Bells
860 Fedoseyev & USSR TV & Radio Large Symphony Orchestra Borodin: Polovetsian March, In The Speppes Of Central Asia Mussorgsky: Night On Bald Mountain Ippolitov-Ivanov: Caucasion Sketches
861 Igor Bril Quartet Live At The Village Gate
2-862 Ermler & Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra Popular Symphonic Pieces By Soviet Composers
863 Svetlanov & USSR Symphony Orchestra Mendelssohn: Italian Symphony No. 4, Rossini: William Tell Overture
864 Ovchinnikov & USSR TV & Radio Large Symphony Orchestra Tchaikovsky: sca Da Rimini, Romeo & Juliet
865 S. Sondetskys & Lithuanian Chamber Orchestra A.Rudin, Cello Haydn: Concerto For Cello With Orchestra
866 Dimitriev/ USSR Ministry Of Culture Orchestra Rachmaninov: Rhapsody On A Theme By Paganini; Gershwin: Rhapsody In Blue
867 Fedoseyev & USSR TV & Radio Large Symphony Symphony Orchestra Glazunov: Symphony No. 1 In E Major, Op. 5
868 Roger Williams The Roger Williams Collection
869 Lazarev & Soloists Ensemble Of The Bolshoi Theature Works By Denisov, Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Mansurian
870 Tchaikovsky Incidental Music From Hamlet, The Barber Of Seville, The Snow Maiden
871 Emil Gilels Schumann: Nachtstucke, Op. 23; Schubert: Moments Musicaux, Op.24
872 Willie Dixon I Am The Blues
873 Pete Seeger The Bitter And The Sweet
874 Ray Charles, Lightning Hopkins, Etc. Riot In Blues
875 Kovalev & The Shostakovich Quartet Glazunov: Quintet For Two Violins And Two Cellos In A Major, Op. 39; Quartet No. 7 For Two Violins, Viola, And Cello In C Minor
876 USSR TV & Radio Large Chorus Choral Music By Soviet Composers
877 Arturo Delmoni Songs My Mother Taught Me
878 Svetlanov & USSR Symphony Orchestra Arensky; Symphonies Nos. 1 And 2
879 Daryl Hall And John Oates Past Times Behind
880 Firesign Theatre Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers
881 Oleg Lundstrem & His Orchestra In Swing Time
882 Svetlanov & USSR Symphony Orchestra Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 5 In E Minor, Op. 64
883 Various Artists New England Christmastide
884 Herb Stewart One Brother
885 Svetlanov & Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 2 In E Minor, Op. 27
886 Art Farmer Here's That Rainy Day
887 Leonid Chizhik Mobius Strip
888 Rozhdestvensky & Moscow Radio Symphony Prokofiev: Symphonies Nos. 1 And 3, Concerto For Violin And Orchestra
889 Caterina Valente & The Count Basie Orchestra Caterina 88
890 Various Soviet Artists Jazz From The USSR
891 Lazarev & Soloists Ensemble Of The USSR Bolshoi Theatre Stravinsky: L'histoire Du Soldat, Septet, Pribaoutki, Ragtime
892 Svetlanov, USSR Symphony Orchestra Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6, Selection From Undine
894 Moscow Jazz Festival Vol. 1 Jazz '84
895 Grigori Ginzburg The Works Of Rubenstein & Liszt
896 Kakhidze & State Symphony Of Georgia Giya Kancheli: Symphony No. 5, Bright Sorrow
897 Glazunov Concerto For Violin & Orchestra;Symphony No. 4, Stenke Razin
898 Allegro Jazz Ensemble Sphinx
899 David Oistrakh Khachaturian: Concerto For Violin, & Orchestra In D Minor Sibelius: Concerto For Violin
900 Svetlanov & USSR Symphony Orchestra Rachmaninov: The Isle Of The Dead, The Bells
2-901 Kakhidze & USSR TV & Radio Large Symphony Orchestra A. Kanchaturian: Gayane, A Ballet In Three Acts
902 David Azarian Trio Stairway To Seventh Heaven
903 USSR Symphony Orchestra Artiomov: The Way To Olympus
904 No Release N/A
905 Vladimir Malinin Prokofiev, Kobekin, Bobylev, Schnittke
906 Pavlenko, Smirnov, Bobylev, Firsova, Artiomov The Works Of Mokern Composers Of Moscow
907 Svetlanov & USSR State Academy Orchestra Tikhon Khrennikov: Symphony No. 2, Concerto No. 1 For Violin & Orchestra In D Major, Op. 14 Vadim Repin, Violin
908 Soviet Jazz Ensemble Boomerang
909 David Oistrakh/S. Richter Shostakovich: Sonata For Violin And Piano, Op. 134; Cesar Franck: Sonata For Violin & Piano In A Major
910 Various Artists Alternatives
911 Various Artists Armenia, The Tragedy, The Music
912 Sergei Stadler Bach Partitas
913 No Release N/A
914 Gosteleradio Quartet Glinka: Quartet No. 2 Miaskovsky: Quartet No. 13; Tanaev: String Trio
915 Alfred Schnittke Chamber Pieces
916 Kadans Moscow Chamber Jazz Ensemble
917 Edison Denisov Works For Small Ensemble
918 Vyacheslav Artiomov Songs, Hymns & Dreams
919 Emil Gilels Prokofiev: Sonata For Klavier, No. 8; Visions Fugitives Op.134
920 V Postnikova & G Rozhdestvensky Brahms: Souvenir De La Russie, 16 Waltzes & Variations On A Theme By Schumann
921 Gidon Kremer Ysaye: Six Sonatas For Solo Violin, Opus 27
922 Grigory Sokolov Beethoven: Sonata, Opus 106 (Hammerklavier)

noirday
by the way theres a "Aluminium" CDs by MFSL, that was released before the "Gold" CDs, but that ones don't have any series, just are know it like "Aluminium" MFSL CDs, the cat# starts with "MFCD".

the name "Aluminium" is just to refer that is made like a normal silver cd... not gold cd like the Ultradisc's.

Yeah...I know. But I have actually no idea to handle the "Aluminium-CDs".

It would be simply and nice to also collect them in an "aluminium series" but that won't fit to the guidelines in any way. :-/

In the history section of the MOFI website the following is written:
"As a result of a time-intensive process which incorporates advanced mastering techniques and custom-designed equipment, the Original Master Recording™ compact disc...is introduced by Mobile Fidelity..."

Maybe "Original Master Recording™ Compact Disc" could be the appropriate name for that "aluminium series".

VarUniiX
spataforeby the way theres a "Aluminium" CDs by MFSL, that was released before the "Gold" CDs, but that ones don't have any series, just are know it like "Aluminium" MFSL CDs, the cat# starts with "MFCD".

the name "Aluminium" is just to refer that is made like a normal silver cd... not gold cd like the Ultradisc's.

Yeah...I know. But I have actually no idea to handle the "Aluminium-CDs".

It would be simply and nice to also collect them in an "aluminium series" but that won't fit to the guidelines in any way. :-/

In the history section of the MOFI website the following is written:
"As a result of a time-intensive process which incorporates advanced mastering techniques and custom-designed equipment, the Original Master Recording™ compact disc...is introduced by Mobile Fidelity..."

Maybe "Original Master Recording™ Compact Disc" could be the appropriate name for that "aluminium series".

yes could be that name or just create a public list with that cds but yes a series called "Original Master Recording™ Compact Disc" sounds more cool.

I don't like these lists. They're somehow lame and can be overlooked very easily. These lists are better for sharing things like "My top 100 albums of all time".

Using series instead of lists is IMHO the only appropriate way to classify all releases of important collector labels like MFSL.

I think the problem here is that people are getting these "series" from the MFSL website and not the actual release.

Most are just recording techniques and production methods used by MFSL and a logo produced to promote them.

The reason why I'm commenting here is because I've been looking through the old Japanese Denon releases.

Denon has thousands of releases with "Denon PCM", "PCM Digital" or "PCM Digital Recording" logos on them. Which are recording processes and not considered as a series. Also people have mistaken them for record labels. So where is the consistency between something like those in the database, and the branding used by MOFI? Once the website changes or disappears, you have nothing to go on.

Another one is the "GAIN 2" process, so now we have GAIN 2™ Ultra Analog 180g Mono Series. Three series based on a brand of mastering! It seem incredibly convoluted to me.

"Using series instead of lists is IMHO the only appropriate way to classify all releases of important collector labels like MFSL."

That's still my basic opinion to this problem. :-)

A well-kept series-tagged entry is a much better way to clearly identify items cause the series-tag is displayed at a well visible position.
For Example: The MFSL-release "Dark Side Of The Moon" is released as Ultradisc AND Ultradisc II. Both under the same catalog number.
According to the guidelines you can differentiate the releases using the release notes oder putting them into different lists. Both ways are very lame IMHO and in addition not very fail-safe.

Using series-tagging instead cleans up this mess and everything's fine. :-)

The problem is "well-kept", I can't see that happening for very long. Today (I had a day to kill) I cleaned up releases containing "PCM Digital Recording" and "PCm Digital" both used as series and labels when they were neither. Next to go is "Denon Pcm Recording". MFSL is a branding/collectors nightmare when catag them.

If more features were added to the lists, then it's possible to catalogue them nicely for more hardcore collectors.

gotthefeelin
The problem is "well-kept"

Absolutely true!
But that's a general problem of most entries here at Discogs. ;-)

But mass-editing all MFSL-entries (about 1000 over all) is not that big thing. One or two evenings of work for one member and the work is done. Or the work will be done by several : one will add the tags for Ultradisc, another one will add the tags for Ultradisc II and so on.

gotthefeelin
...then it's possible to catalogue them nicely for more hardcore collectors.

IMHO it's already hardcore that there exist 400+ entries of "Dark Side Of the Moon". ;-)

VarUniiX
For Example: The MFSL-release "Dark Side Of The Moon" is released as Ultradisc AND Ultradisc II. Both under the same catalog number.

Yes, I can see the problem here. At least someone has entered the processes in the notes, so it can be searched, but it's not ideal.

I'd personally like to see "series" separated from "label". So when you do a main search they're not mixed together.
"Series" is a great way for collectors to find other releases in a series at a glance and helps tidying up a record label's catalogue.

Another problem also, is once a label is first created, the title is almost set in stone. You can't edit it without also editing every release using that label. Example: WARNER MUSIC BRASIL LTDA. which is all in CAPS, who is going to edit 845 releases?

Anyway, I'm sure someone is looking into it more thoroughly for a better solution.

If these are series, then why not Blu-spec CD, SHM-CD, etc? Same principle.

jansenENjanssen
If these are series, then why not Blu-spec CD, SHM-CD, etc? Same principle.

I am glad you brought it up.. this needs a thread by itself. However, back to your question, these are not SERIES, they should be added under Formats category as they are changes (improvements) in Hardware manufacturing being [CD] here, and not a record mastering processes, as has been done by so many companies in the past and till today such as TELARC, which has quite a few series of its own.

BluSpec CD - SHMCD bring about better sonics due to better laser readability, and improvements in Bit encoding and oversampling recordings. Audiophile market has the corners stone on these formats. For the full list:

Hi-Res Audio
HDCD - High Definition Compatible Digital
SACD - Super Audio Compact Disc
XRCD - Extended Resolution Compact Disc
LPCD - Long Play Compact Disc
HQCD - High Quality Compact Disc
AQCD - Analog Quality Compact Disc
AMCD - Analog Master Compact Disc
S - Audiofile Digital Master Series
SHM-CD - Super High Material CD
24KCD - 24K Compact Disc (GOLD CD)
Blu-Spec CD
CD - Compact Disc
CD - Crystal Disc
DDC - 1: 1 Direct Digital Master Cut Ultra Gold Disc
DXD CD - Digital eXtreme Definition
AAD - Almost Analogue Digital
LD - Laser Disc
VCD - Video Compact Disc
DVD - Digital Video Disc
BD - Blu-ray Disc
DSD - Direct Stream Digital
DST - Direct Stream Transfer
Project R2R - Reel to Reel (Yes its back with a vengeance)

However the following is for example is a very well know audio encoding/mastering technique:

K2HD - K2 High Definition

Although keep in mind, JVC (IP owner) almost always combines its K2HD technology with Hardware superiority like XRCD or HQCD, Gold, etc.

Like I said the above formats need to be added to FORMATS category, its long overdue.. make a new thread for that if need be.

That's my 2 cents,

Oh and I am all in favor of series above, companies like MoFi & Telarc have these series as there own copyrighted Trademarks TM. So there should be no confusion with others.

Cheers

Why should "XRCD" be a format? While it has a special mastering process, the result is an ordinarily manufactured and encoded CD.

amrtn
Why should "XRCD" be a format? While it has a special mastering process, the result is an ordinarily manufactured and encoded CD.

At first glance it appears that XRCD is merely an Encoding and Mastering process only, however, A specially modified Laser Cutter known as the DVD K2 Laser is utilized to create a CD Glass Master via JVC Extended Pit Cutting Technology [All propriety stuff here] in order to have a more precise pit length before burning it on to the glass master. So actual physical changes to the Redbook CD.

It's all JVC technology through and through:
JVC ORIGINAL ANALOG MASTERING CONSOLE
JVC ORIGINAL 24BIT K2 A/D CONVERTER
JVC ORIGINAL DIGITAL K2
JVC ORIGINAL K2 Rubidium Master Clock
JVC ORIGINAL Encode K2+K2 Laser Cutting

End result a unique product, deserving its own category.
To read more about the technology visit VICTOR JVC , here is a diagram:
http://i.imgur.com/otpgLpb.jpg

OneObuyan
At first glance it appears that XRCD is merely an Encoding and Mastering process only, however, A specially modified Laser Cutter known as the DVD K2 Laser is utilized to create a CD Glass Master via JVC Extended Pit Cutting Technology [All propriety stuff here] in order to have a more precise pit length before burning it on to the glass master. So actual physical changes to the Redbook CD.

The glass master might be differently manufactured than what is usual for CDs, but the release itself, which is not the glass master, is a medium that is within the redbook standard and is made of the same material as all aluminum CDs.

OneObuyan
... in order to have a more precise pit length before burning it on to the glass master. So actual physical changes to the Redbook CD.
...

No not any change, it just means the process is more rigidly controlled 'allegedly'. All that can happen is if it works perfectly, a 'perfect' redbook CD glass master will be produced. Nothing 'outside' redbook standard is made.

XRCD is marketing 'puff'.

I am keeping my personal opinions and school dropout guess work engineering to myself, I suggest you all do the same. What you all believe to be or don't is not the subject here, and of no consequence to the debate, we are merely capturing and stating well known established and done with facts, nothing more.

The reality is, At $40 a pop and Reel2Reel going for $300, they are best experienced with $30k+ systems, so quite down pls!

OneObuyan
jansenENjanssenIf these are series, then why not Blu-spec CD, SHM-CD, etc? Same principle.

AAD - Almost Analogue Digital

AAD does not stand for Almost Analogue Digital. The SPARS codes stand for A=Analogue and D=Digital. And the 1st position is for recording, 2nd for mixing and 3rd for mastering. All CDs have a D as the last letter, LPs have an A (tho the code is not used for LPs). So:
AAA = Analogue recording, mixing & mastering
AAD = Analogue recording, analogue mixing, digital mastering
ADD = Analogue recording, digital mixing, digital mastering
DDD = All digital

marmilmjd66
OneObuyanjansenENjanssenIf these are series, then why not Blu-spec CD, SHM-CD, etc? Same principle.

AAD - Almost Analogue Digital

AAD does not stand for Almost Analogue Digital. The SPARS codes stand for A=Analogue and D=Digital. And the 1st position is for recording, 2nd for mixing and 3rd for mastering. All CDs have a D as the last letter, LPs have an A (tho the code is not used for LPs). So:
AAA = Analogue recording, mixing & mastering
AAD = Analogue recording, analogue mixing, digital mastering
ADD = Analogue recording, digital mixing, digital mastering
DDD = All digital

You are mistaking the SPARS (description) for the (Abbreviation).. It literally stands for "Almost Analogue Digital".
Why and how is not the point, but thanks for sharing it anyway.
For an example of an AAD record, see here: https://i.redditmedia.com/YUtCF4Zc2ehZpweq52uUMH1aehAOkHDflDYL_zV7O8A.jpg?w=1024&s=58d9b17fdf578ad87e845d26c9710f5a

OneObuyan

OneObuyan
marmilmjd66OneObuyanjansenENjanssenIf

AAD - Almost Analogue Digital

You are mistaking the SPARS (description) for the (Abbreviation).. It literally stands for "Almost Analogue Digital".
Why and how is not the point, but thanks for sharing it anyway.
For an example of an AAD record, see here: https://i.redditmedia.com/YUtCF4Zc2ehZpweq52uUMH1aehAOkHDflDYL_zV7O8A.jpg?w=1024&s=58d9b17fdf578ad87e845d26c9710f5a

That's very interesting - I've never seen it before. Thanks!

This isn't the place to debate the 'merits' of different technical enhancements..
Rather than a series, I would also say Ultradisc UHR is a proprietary technical enhancement of an existing format.. and it should be added to the Free Text Field (FTF) of the Format section. It's an enhancement such as SHM (Super High Material) - i.e.. SHM-CD, Platinum SHM and SHM-SACD and they are placed in the FTF.
Whereas SBM and Direct SBM are technical enhancements, I would say, HDCD is a format in that you require a dedicated player to realise the enhancement.